Parenting Principles: Is Raising an Animal the Same as Raising a Child?
Friday, December 02, 2011 5:28PM
Michael Pearl, the controversial preacher who claims in his book, "To Train Up a Child," that God wants you to spank your kids, says "the techniques for training an animal and a human are the same."
"The first principle in training an animal is to establish a relationship of trust," says Pearl. "So the animal knows you're not going to hurt him. The same is true with the child. You establish a relationship of trust. The second one is to communicate your will, clearly."
Mothers in the audience voiced their opposition during the show taping. What are your thoughts after hearing Pearl’s principles? Should techniques used to raise an animal be used on a child?
How do you feel about the parenting principles of Michael Pearl? Continue the conversation.
Filed Under: As Seen On The Show
Comments
Spanking demonstrates that it's all right for people to hit people, and especially for big people to hit little people, and stronger people to hit weaker people. Children learn that when you have a problem you solve it with a good swat. A child whose behavior is controlled by spanking is likely to carry on this mode of interaction into other relationships with siblings and peers, and eventually a spouse and offspring. - Dr. Sears
Positive only dog training is reckless, dangerous, and largely ineffective. Presently I am helping a woman who paid thousands of dollars to become a certified positive only dog 'trainer' learn new methods that actually work because what she paid to be taught does not work. You can teach a dog to sit in 5 or 10 minutes but getting an already aggressive dog - and YES some dogs are genetically this way - is the type of training that most people have to deal with. I see scores of people including veterinarians and long time pet owners who clearly do not understand canine behavior. If you think spanking doesn't work and timeouts do just take a gander at the behavior of kids today the next time you're out shopping. There's a valid reason restaurants are banning kids as are some airlines banning them from first class. You better get your kids in line. And by the way, many animals work together to protect the pack or pride and you can bet they don't coddle each other.
I, for a long time,thought that I was the only one who would watch the animal channel as a kid and now, and observed the same notion as this man. I understand the opinions of all the parents,but I understand this gentleman also. I have seen MANY episodes where(I will use a mother lion here)a mother lion spends much time not only taking care of herself, but her male part, and her cubs, just as with modern day mothers. She will go out and hunt her butt off to bring in nourishment for her family as long as the male does his job-- protect the family while she is away. When she comes back from that hunt, she begins to eat. If one of her cubs should approach her during this feeding, she turns and roughs her cub up a little just enough to warn him. Then she returns to her feeding, gets full,then allows the cubs to partake of that meal. (I learned at a very young age not to walk up and snatch any food off my mother/grandparents' plate, especially after they have had a hard day at work. I can't say I walked around with black eyes, but I had a knock across the head a time or two that reminded me not to do it again. I've had those moments where a hand would come out of nowhere and knock me so hard I thought God came down from Heaven himself to discipline me! But out of all that... I learned respect for others, for their property, for their boundaries, and simply because their property wasn't mine to invite myself to in the first place! Because those same hands would lovingly wrap themselves around me, and take the time to explain what I did wrong, it made being wacked worthwhile. A mother lion behaves in this same fashion. I had an incident just the other day where I and my 3 year old were outside clearing weeds when a beautiful pit bull puppy came running from nowhere, and right toward my daughter. I'm standing there with my machete and all I could think was ,"Please God...don't let me have to use this knife." As I ran toward the animal, he knelt down at my baby's feet, then he rolled on his back and laid there. When I stopped I saw his HUGE momma looking right at me in attack mode, (with head bowed and ears pointing straight back), then I froze. I knelt down, put my knife down, and I just stared at the dog. In my head (really) I told the dog, "I know y'all are just passing through. If you let me get my baby, you can safely get yours." I stood up, kicked my knife a safe distance away, and began to walk toward my baby. I NEVER TOOK MY EYES OFF HER BUT I WALKED WITH AN ATTITUDE OF "I KNOW YOU UNDERSTAND ME DOG...". She, surprisingly, came out of defense mode and allowed me to seperate her puppy and my baby. I watched how she behaved as a mother once we were clear. Her pup kept wanting to play as she took her head several times and attemped to nudge her pup in the direction she wanted them to go. After enough attempts, she grabbed her puppy with her big jaws, and slammed him to the ground. As she did this she held him and let out a low, but well understood growl. She then released him, licked him, then walked away. As sad as he was to go, I knew he understood his mother because he followed without hesitaion. Sometimes, we smack our children to grab their attention. Here's what's crazy...Sometimes we smack other people's kids to get their attention. In a case where I was next to some kids who were sitting next to me joking about a patient in the doctor's office I used to go to as a teen. I knew that the person was suffering from retardation due to spina bifida, 2nd degree. I'm looking at this person hurting because I was born the same way except God saw to it that I had a normal life. I was sitting there, 21 years old, pregnant with my first baby, and hoping she would be born healthy, and before I knew it, I had turned and slapped someone else's child. Not out of anger, but out of hurt. I looked at him with tears in my eyes. He didn't tell his mom when she returned, and I said nothing abut it. He gave me a look that said I'm sory, and that was enough for me. What is crazy is that the boy's little sister was there for therapy on her legs, which had trouble supporting her. Some parents discipline their children because of their environment. People who grew up in the woods don't handle their kids like people who grow up in the country, who don't handle their kids like people who grew up in a crime-infested city, who don't handle their kids like Princess Diana might have handled her boys? You get it?! In the woods, discipline might be to be stuck with the chore of cleaning the "day's catch", but if a child should rise up against the parent, I'm certain he gets whipped. You just can't hear because they're in the woods. A parent in the country might give getting up at 4am instead of 5am to start the day's work as a form of discipine, but if that child phyically rose up against that parent, I'm sure that more than the oxen are going to feel the whack of a bullwhip. You just don't notice because you are too busy admiring the country-side view. In the city, parents who manage to raise their kids to adulthood, alive...successful...and criminal record-free, and no matter the race because the city is REAL and really wild... they did it using a rod iron. At times a leather belt. You know why you don't notice? Because you might be ducking bullets because you never heard the rule about being in the house before the street lights came on because freaks come out at night. Yes, some of us remembered because of a serious butt-whipping we got as a kid. It hurt then, but when you realze how easy it is to lose your child to drugs, sex, peer-pressure, prostitution, rape, murder, or jail, you will do ANYTHING to see your kid not become a statistic.
I am a mother who is going to raise her kids with all these notions in mind. You see, God said spare the rod, he didn't say don't use it. He gave us these two rules: 1.HONOR THY MOTHER AND FATHER, for the children, and HE said, 2.PROVOKE NOT THY CHILDREN TO WRATH for the parents. A two way street. But we also know an old Chinese proverb that says, "The student is never greater than the teacher." God is our teacher, and what he teaches us is taught to our kids, no matter where we live. Society has to identify when a parent is abusive, or being abusive. Don't be in such a rush to call 911 when you see a parent spanking their child. 911 has actual emergencies to handle you know?! Instead, if it bothers you that much, offer to help. You might not know that mom came to the store to buy spaghetti noodles, but instead found herself looking at five jars of spaghetti sauce that HER child slapped on the floor while having a tantrum. You might not know that mom doesn't have enough money to pay for the damages her kid caused. If you have never been poor, or struggling with providing for your kids, I don't expect you to understand. You might not know that mom just walked into the store with an unrully kid after just having a fender-bender because the kids were in the back seat figting which distracted her. You don't know what a parent might be going through. If that parent ain't grabbing their child by the shirt using them to mop up the sauce, don't call 911. See where YOU can help. YOU get it? Society needs to stop judging US parents who use physical discipline and take a few minutes to analyze what is going on, or being said to the child in the moment before either becoming proactive or counteractive. Some parents might respond defensively, but who said that being a wise citizen was easy? Really America. Not everyone is cut out to be a parent. Only the strong survive. But really, not everyone is cut out to be a judge either. In being a judge, you can not be bias. That's why you are not a judge. You have to be willing to be fair in hearing and perception. You are not a judge because some of you only see what you see. I teach my daughter now: "Many people convict you for being a stern parent. Many will convict you because you may choose to run from being a parent and straight to the abortion clinic, (which I pray I never have to hear any of my children say those words.) Many will convict you because you have kids, period. Never be afraid to be a parent when it's your turn. Just be the best parent you can be. God knows how to get you through the rest." In the meantime, we watch animal planet and talk about how different species do different things. Even they can tell when a mother bear disciplined her cub, and can analyze why. I know I'm doing my job, and I didn't hire any extra parents when I chose to leave an abusive marriage, and raise my kids on my own. I am a young, strong, black mother who lives a block from the nearest projects. I am military on my babies. I'm not on welfare. Finally was able to get food stamps. I have an Associates in Drafting Design Technology, soon I will be an Architect. You don't know that by looking at me, and probably already would have your mind made up about me when you see my kids acting crazy in public like we did not go through the "Don't get in this store and clown me. We don't have a lot of money..." speech. Who cares! At the end of the night, I am by their bedside praying with them. I am sitting with them through the fevers. I am feeding and clothing them. If you want to help THANKS, but if you just feel like being judgmental, start with you. You were someone's kid who probably needed a whipping, but now someone in society is shooting at you, or you're in jail... or worse...you're on the other side watching us debate about something that your mom didn't do but had a chance to do, but because she didn't put her foot down enough, so you're dead! Notice I refer to mom a lot. Whether dad is in the picture or not somehow we moms always have to hear what society has to say about us! JOYS OF PARENTING... I can handle any title you give me, but as long as mine don't grow up to be "monsters", "abusers", or "animals"... who cares? I have many financial debts though. Who wants to help me raise my kids society? Let's start with the cost of utiities alone on my income. Anyone want to write me a check for uniforms? School will be open before we know it!
Spanking doesn't have to be abusive any more than surgery does.
A doctor with a scalpel is a dangerous thing. There will be cutting and pain involved. You'd never want your doctor to cut on you while impaired by anger or by anything else. You'd also hope that your doctor is firmly focused on your health as his ultimate goal throughout the procedure. Still, there is a time and place for surgery, and it can be beneficial under the right circumstances. A good surgeon never has to worry about being confused with an ax murderer.
Similarly, a good parent can employ spanking in a way that is beneficial and could never be called abusive.
@Liza : "To all knuckle heads American... you people are having many teens and children that are so disrespectful to their parents and grand parents because most of you do not spark."
Interesting on a few fronts. One.... I presume by YOUR standards you weren't spanked - as you wouldn't be so rude and 'disrespectful' to call people knuckle heads. Two ... around 92% of children in the States are spanked and have been for years - which means that your statement doesn't hold water. If it DID .. there wouldn't be all the violence and strife we do see, would there ??
And yes, Pearl DOES recommend hitting ie spanking/belting etc and even switching babies which is simply obscene. As a 57 yr old grandmother I am disgusted with Pearl and his ilk. There is NEVER ever a reason to hit another person ... and especially not a child.
I would like to comment on Hannah S stament that was made What WOULD JESUS DO and she said if he or any of his followers actually believe GOD is okay with you hitting his children. Hannah here is the scripture from GOD's Word, Proverbs 23:13-14. Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod,he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death. The word rod in GOD's word does not mean you actually get a real rod and hit your child, people pick up things and hit their child or children because they want to do it and i don't believe in that but i believe in GOD's Word. GOD BLESS YOU AND YOUR FAMILY!
To all knuckle heads American... you people are having many teens and children that are so disrespectful to their parents and grand parents because most of you do not spark.
Mr. Pearl did not advocating the hitting and beating on his book to "train up a child" I can say that because I did read the book.
Buy the book!! Buy the book!!
And read it yourself don't just listen to Anderson cooper I don't think he is man enough to read the book because he might use it himself. Also Anderson Cooper keep cutting him off that shows how rude he is, he might not being sparked when he is little that's why.
A couple of months ago I heard a saying that I have decided works for many situations...
The only difference between a tattooed person and a non-tattooed person- is that the tattooed person doesn't care that you don't have tattoos...
Relating to other things...
The only difference between a parent who spanks and a parent who doesn't spank is that the parent who spanks doesn't care that you don't...
This conversation will always have two sides. I'm trying to figure out where the justification for calling parents who spank "abusers", "monsters" etc... You don't hear parents who spank do this. You don't hear... They don't spank...ugh they are too soft, not good parents...etc. I am currently raising 3 children 14,9,3. My 14 has been spanked once in her whole life...it didnt work for her... My 9 year old was...they are both straight A students, they play sports and have a healthy social life... My 3 year old son has also been spanked. It's not the first option, it may also not be the last depending on the situation.
I agree with spanking, I don't need your opinion. Unless you have raised the first perfect child- I don't want to hear from you on my parenting skills. I want the right to raise my children how I see fit. Guess what? I'll let you do the same...
Here's a scripture from the Word of GOD Proverbs 23:13. Do not withhold discipline from a child; If you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Verse 14, Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death. Someone on your program said that this was not in the Bible, if they Know GOD and Know his Word and Read his Word then they would not have made that statement. One more point the word rod in the Bible doesn't mean to get a real rod and beat your child, rod means spank your child, it won't kill him and there is a difference between beating and spanking a child.
This fanatic named Pearl is a "monster" advocating pure and simple systematic child abuse. I was an abused child as well as my 6 brothers and sisters. I disagree with the psychiatrist however who stated that all abused children grow up to be abusers. Not true. She should have used the word "some". And some marry abusers and some vow never to abuse their children. So all abused children react differently.
In my case, I was abused with a belt and it made me terrified of my father and I stayed in a developmental stage of a 2 year old even though I was intelligent and went to college. I ended up marrying an abuser and my marriage ended tumultuously. My husband tried to kill me and then commmitted suicide. I raised my child by myself and vowed never to abuse her and I never did. So, I broke the chain of abuse in my family. I thought psychiatrists were taught not to have "black and white thinking" or "generalizing".
I do not believe in spanking because most of the time it leads to abuse. There are other ways to discipline such as " time out" taking away favorite toys, etc. He advocate*****red and his children will end up hating him. I dont care what anyone says about spanking. It is wrong and noone will ever convince me that it is right. And I am very proud of myself for not hitting my child. We all have a choice.
It is ashame that people are taking this totally out of context. If you want he man's opinion and where he stands on the situation then let him speak and answer the question. Do not keep cutting him off and changing the subject. The Pearls are wonderful people and their material and books are based on the Bible and the truth that is within it's pages. Read the material for yourself and just think with common sense (something that is truly lost in America today) and you'll see his heart in the matter and see that it makes sense. In no way does he EVER advocate abusing your children, in fact he tells you that if you feel like you are abusing them to stop and get your own heart and attitude right because that's not the heart and motive behind this AT ALL. The proof is in the pudding look at his own happy, fulfilled family, kids and grandkids that have all been raised under these principles. I was spanked as a child and turned out to be a mature adult. THINK for yourself people, Think!
after watching your show and seeing this pearl fella i feel that he needs the same treatment given to him that his book has given all these children it is so very wrong and immoral
Part of the reason our great country is in a nose dive is because parents arent disciplineing thier children properly because of possibility of arrest and/or imprisonmentfrom city ,state and government, and kids are allowed to run amuck. When they become adults they will still have the same mindset that they can do whatever they want and NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS. and folks wonder why are prisons are full.
Im not saying that child abuse is ok or should be allowed to continue, it makes me ill that abuse happens and that some people think that a spanking on the bottom* is in the same catagory as holding a childs hand over an open flame. discipline should be administered with love,common sence and restraint and never with anger. love,common sence and restraint should have been ingrained already in the parent by the same process.
I got the belt across my bottom more than a few times and today at age 49 I am a better person for it. Proverbs 23-13,14
Thank you Dad
Just my thoughts
*(where its padded, itll sting but not life threatening or will it maim. it got my attention as a kid and made me realize that i wont do that again.)
ps. love your show. great job
Behavioral science applies to all of us, since it is actually more of a description than a prescription.
For example, take positive reinforcement (addition of something makes a behavior increase). A reward that leads to reinforcement can be as simple as a tossed ball for a dog, or the warm feeling of doing what is moral, or what one hopes Jesus would desire, for an adult human.
Even a sophisticated, deep reward can reinforce behavior - knowing that we all may respond to reward doesn't cheapen it, or mean that it is "bribery."
That, however, has nothing to do with celebrating pain as a way to train. Even the training of animals works best if done with positive reinforcement and a bit of reward-removal -- no pain needed.
This is not a sentimental opinion -- this has been proven again and again. One great source is the history of Animal Behavior Enterprises, a for-profit business that trained over 150,000 animals over decades, with reward and without pain.
The one remaining ABE trainer, Bob Bailey, often says he is unsentimental about this issue and would have used pain if it worked to train anything, but it clearly does not.
The I.Q. Zoo is a fun way to learn about their business:
http://www3.uca.edu/iqzoo/iqzoo.htm
Acknowledging that behavioral science exists doesn't negate the fact that there are lots of other ways that humans learn.
So, I am not offended by the basic comparison.
I am, however, offended by Michael Pearl, for all of the reasons below, starting with the least offensive.
He abuses the terminology of behavioral science, getting most of it wrong.
He takes his example of how to train from the Amish, a people not known for kindness to animals.
He makes a false comparison to animal training as an excuse to use pain on children -- good animal training has not been like that for years.
He scorns education.
He plays on parents' fears and insecurities to sell his ideas.
He dwells on how to "train" children to stop doing things, but lavishes none of his attention on how to teach them what to do instead.
He shows, via several anecdotes in the book, that he has seen positive reinforcement and removal of reward work just fine, but still prescribes pain.
He sees children as parents' opponents, filled with sin and defiance.
He makes his followers fear the world.
He insists on rigid gender roles and submission of women.
He thinks that, as long as one is calm, it makes using pain OK.
He thinks that learned helplessness is happiness.
And, of course, he thinks using pain on babies, and even prolonged violence on older children, is just fine.
And I'm sure I'm missing about a dozen things -- all more offensive than comparing teaching children to training animals.
I think it is appalling that these parents have the audacity to blame this author for the abuse they serve to their children. Discipline is not the same thing a********* your child out of anger. I was a rebellious child, I was spanked often but I am also proud of it. All because I know right from wrong, I know that there are consequences to actions. But something that is vital to everyday life even for those without children, we must account for our own actions. No matter if you read a book or watched a movie, it can only be your fault if you follow through afterwards trying to bring the 'plot' into your own life. It's part of being an adult and I find it sad that a 24 year old woman can say this when there are women and men well over my age trying to blame their actions upon a single person.
I also think this author was treated unfairly on this show. He was berated and when he tried to defend himself his words were ran over by those of the accusers.